Mission: Providing A Forum for Inventors and Inventions...
Mission: Providing A Forum for Inventors and Inventions...
Todd Basche joined us via Zoom meeting from Las Altos, California. He shared with us the triumphs and challenges of his Wordlock invention and lots more!
YOU’VE BEEN INVENTING SINCE YOU WERE 10 YEARS OLD. HOW DID THAT JOURNEY START?
AWESOME. YOUR DAD LAID A GOOD EXAMPLE FOR YOU.
Yes, he did.
YOU ALSO MENTIONED THAT YOU TRIED TO INVENT PORTABLE YOGURT. I WAS WONDERING WHAT THAT IS, NEVER HEARD OF IT.
IT IS INTERESTING TO SEE HOW YOU EVOLVED OVER THE YEARS. YOU FOUND YOURSELF IN A SITUATION AND EXPERIMENTED WITH IDEAS TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. NOW TO THE BIG INVENTION WORDLOCK, WHAT EXPERIENCE LEAD YOU TO COME UP WITH A COMBINATION LOCK SYSTEM THAT USES LETTERS INSTEAD OF WORDS?
I got frustrated and said gee if I could set the combination to "pool" or "water", it would be easier to remember. And I looked around and looked around... Nobody had ever done a lock that used words instead of numbers, I figured out how to do it. I patented it, trademarked the name "Wordlock" ended up licensing it through Staples, and I ended up taking the license back.
My wife and I started a company and we did bike locks, luggage locks, and laptop locks, every type of lock you can imagine. We sold tens of millions of the locks, and we were in 40,000 stores... CVS, Walgreens, Target, Walmart, Amazon, Dicks Sporting Goods; we got into 11 countries.
TV shows wrote us into their scripts, on TV shows like The Great Chase type of shows, and we were in every magazine that you could think of from Readers Digest to Men's Journal, I was on The Regis and Kelly TV Show. It was a fantastic ride and we ended up selling the company and they are still selling them to this day.
If you look it up on Amazon or Target, it's still one of the top selling locks in the world which is kind of incredible and if you go to the bridges in France where they have the locks of love on those bridges, you'll also see tons of Wordlocks built through out there, and it always makes us smile when we see that.
WOW! THAT MUST HAVE BEEN AN AH AH MOMENT FOR YOU, BECAUSE THAT RARELY HAPPENS TO MOST INVENTORS. I BELIEVE THAT WAS YOUR FIRST MAJOR INVENTION?
Yeah, that was the first one that really went mega.
THAT’S REALLY IMPRESSIVE… AND THE NAME “WORDLOCK”, HOW DID YOU COME ABOUT IT?
A lock that uses words instead of numbers... Words are easier to remember, words are how we communicate. We don't communicate in numbers so it seemed like a logical thing... When I looked up the trademark, nobody had trademarked it, so remarkably, we were able to trademark that.
NOW DID YOU HAVE TO WORK WITH A PATENT LAWYER WHILE YOU WERE TRYING TO TRADEMARK, DO THE PROTOTYPE?
Yes, yes, we did... And that was a difficult process. It takes a lot of money to trademark and patent. Most inventors don't realize how expensive that really can be.
YOU PAID FOR THIS OUT OF POCKET?
Yeah, all out of pocket.
WOULD YOU SAY THAT WAS THE MOST CHALLENGING PART OF THE INVENTION PROCESS FOR YOU?
Well, that was the most financially challenging... In speaking to other inventors, I would say a couple of things, number one, taking an idea from your head to the store shelf is an arduous journey.
But first thing when you have an idea and you think it's great, people go talk to 3 or 4 friends that would say "Yeah, that's great, that's amazing, that's fantastic" and what I find having talked to hundreds of inventors is that they haven’t yet googled to see if what they thought off really exists which is amazing, they're like "oh I talked to my friends, and they all think that would be great" and I’m like yeah there could be a 100 of them already in the market.. So first, google the heck out of it and make sure it doesn’t exist. After that you need to talk to people who aren’t your friends but who are in the demographic that you think might use the product and go bounce it off of 25 or 50 of them and you would learn tremendous amount before you spend a dime, before you trademark or patent, or make a prototype.
The way I did the prototype, I took a regular combination lock and I filled in all the numbers with plastic glue... And when it dried, I had a guy at a jewelry store who had an engraving machine, engrave the letters in... And it cost me like 50 box to have him engrave the letters in, and that was as much as I spent to validate that it was really going to be a big idea, people would really use it and pay money... Lots of inventors spend thousands or tens of thousands of dollars patenting, and trademarking, doing it all in secret and never really understanding whether there’s a market for their product.
YOU ANSWERED SOME QUESTIONS I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU, ADVICE TO INVENTORS... YOU MENTIONED INVENTORS TALKING TO THEIR FRIENDS, DOING SOME RESEARCH, INVENTORS WHO KEEP THINGS SECRET... AMONG INVENTORS THERE'S A TENDENCY THAT THEY WANT TO BE CAREFUL HOW THEY SHARE THEIR IDEA; THEY DON'T WANT SOMEBODY ELSE TO STEAL THEIR IDEA...
THAT MAKES SENSE... SO AN INVENTOR WHO IS VERY GREEN, FIRST TIME EVER DOING IT, WOULD YOU ALSO SUGGEST A LAWYER AS A GUIDE OR SOME INVENTOR GROUPS AND ASSOCIATIONS, IF YOU'RE SO GREEN AT IT, YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING BUT YOU JUST HAVE AN IDEA?
I wouldn’t go to a lawyer. That's not their thing. They are ready to help you with incorporation, company names and searches, should you be an LLC, an S-CORP and all that stuff. Don't do any of that, get a drawing of what the idea could be, go on the web, get Fiverr or someone who for a 100 box would do a quick rendering of "hey I’ve got this idea…” I had an idea for an umbrella at the beach, where the bottom part of the umbrella was like a corkscrew so you could spin it into the ground, I thought that was a great idea, and I had a guy do a rendering of it for 50 box just so I could show people what I was thinking about, and then I found out lots of people had done that already; so you want to try to mark it up as quickly as you can, as inexpensive as you can... I think other inventor groups can definitely be helpful but I’ll stay away from lawyers.
ABSOLUTELY, NOW LETS PIGGY BACK TO THE STAPLES CONTEST… THAT CONTEST GAVE YOU THAT EXPOSURE, IT GAVE YOU YOUR FIRST BIG BREAK, AND YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT BEING IN OTHER COUNTRIES OVERSEAS, HOW WERE YOU ABLE TO GET THE LICENSING TO EXPAND TO OTHER COUNTRIES AND DID YOU NEED TO PATENT WORDLOCK IN EACH OF THOSE COUNTRIES?
There's a couple of questions there...
The first thing is, I entered this Staples contest kind of on a whim, and I knew that I had a solid idea because I had taken it to schools, taken it to principles; by taking this prototype all over the place I had gotten that product market validation so I knew I had product market fit.
I guess the Staples contest was something I thought would be fun. That we won was... nobody was more surprised than my wife and I. And that was thrilling, that gave me good exposure but the licensing that I got from Staples was not like millions of dollars, so you don't get rich on a licensing deal. You get a little bit of income coming in to fund your next idea, and we took the license back and started our own company; we found factories in China
and we built everything overseas, my wife Rahn and I did packaging, marketing, sales, and returns... licensing is so much easier if you can figure out a couple of ideas that you can license faster, easier, less stressful than deciding to build everything yourself.
YES, YOU NEED THAT DIVISION OF LABOR... SO WITH STAPLES YOU WON $25,OOO THIS IS ASIDE THE LICENSING. WHAT I'VE HEARD ABOUT LICENSING DEALS THE INVENTOR GETS 5% OR 10%. HOW WAS IT FOR YOU, MORE THAN 10% OR LESS?
I think it was 14%. I honestly can't remember.
AND YOU WERE ABLE TO RENEGOTIATE AND YOU STARTED YOUR OWN COMPANY, YOU WENT OVERSEAS. DID YOU HAVE TO START ALL OVER TO DO A PATENT IN THOSE COUNTRIES?
I chose not to do a patent in those countries because it’s such a big expense, so I just said if somebody wants to they would rip me off… You know when you go to tradeshows like travel shows, bike shows, you go to specific trade shows about your product in the industry, and you get a little 10" by 10" booth, and you get a banner printed down at FedEx, and Kinkos and then you’re often running.
We went to the first trade show, a travel show with six of our travel locks... This were handmade products of the travel logs, we had no packaging so we brought somebody else's travel lock package, carefully took the locks out of it, put our lock into it, we printed on a color printer, our version of what a package might look like that we had bought up for like a hundred box, then we glued that on top of all these packages. We didn’t know how to do bubble sealed packages and all that stuff...
And then people came over, they pick it up and they play with it and say "this is great, OK we’ll take a thousand of them.” We were like "hello?" and they said “how much is it?” and we said “I don't know."
We really hadn't done enough home work.
And they said “give me your data sheet and your order form”, then we said "why do you need that stuff, what are you talking about...” And then Brookstone came by and said "We want to put it in all the Brookstone stores. So, where's your order form? What's the pricing, will you do co-branding?”
We just like figured it out on the fly; so you go to the tradeshows and they were like "I’m a distributor from England, and I'll like to carry the lock over there", so that's how you go across the pond to the different countries, that's how we got into 11 countries.
THAT WAS MY NEXT QUESTION. COUNTRIES YOU WERE IN, YOU JUST MENTIONED ENGLAND AND…
There were 11 countries, it was England, Spain, Germany, Norway... I can't remember the rest of them..
DID YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE WORDLOCK IN THE LANGUAGE OF THE COUNTRIES THAT DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH?
So we tried that, we did a Spanish version of the Wordlock and nobody bought it. When we went and interviewed people who spoke Spanish in the United States, they said "no we like to use our English" we don't want it in the native language. And when we talked to people in Mexico they said the same thing, they said "we prefer English than Spanish locks.” So, all the ones overseas were all in English.
YOU HAD DIFFERENT VERSIONS, DIFFERENT MODELS OF IT
We did a version of this, this had three letter acronyms. So like Major League Baseball, you could get a lock with the preset combination; it was MLB, MBA, LOL, BRB be right back, all those, we did these kinds of pretty locks.
AND PEOPLE WERE USING IT FOR EVERYTHING FROM LUGGUAGES TO POOL LOCKS, BIKES, WOW...
So these we sold a lot of... Parents bought for their kids to lock their bikes, and they came in all kinds of colors.. And there were lock boxes for houses, and all types of different dress locks. .
LOTS OF CREATIVITY THERE... AND THEY'RE NOT TOO EXPENSIVE
They were basically the same price as regular locks
NOT EXPENSIVE AT ALL FOR ALL OF THE FEATURES, DESIGNS... YOU DID MENTION, MOVIES AND BOOKS, I’M KIND OF INTRIGUED. WHAT WERE THE MOVIES, THE BOOKS?
AND YOU GOT SOME ROYALTIES?
No, we didn’t get any royalties for that. It was great advertising
IT SPREAD THE WORD...
THERE'S THIS FAMOUS NOTEBOOK THAT YOU HAVE, THAT YOU'VE BEEN JOTTING DOWN IDEAS SINCE YOUR DAYS AT NORTH EASTERN UNIVERSITY. DO YOU STILL HAVE THAT NOTEBOOK, ARE YOU STILL JOTTING DOWN IDEAS?
You know, I do, and I am.
IT WOULD BE NICE TO SEE IT
AND IT'S STILL IN GOOD CONDITION...
AFTER ALL THESE YEARS…
This was a gift from my wife
THAT'S NEAT. THAT'S A REALLY COOL GIFT, NOTEBOOK
ALMOST LIKE YOUR BIBLE OF INVENTION IDEAS...
It's much harder than people think but it's definitely doable, and I encourage everybody to try it but go through these key steps:
Number 1 is check to make sure what you want to do hasn’t been done before or somebody hasn't done something that is so close as to invalidate what you want to do
Number 2 mock it up, it can be any fidelity, it can be a hand drawing, it can be bullet points to describe it... you can go online on Fiverr or one of these online services and give somebody enough of the description that they can now render it with AI.
They can make it look like a beautiful ring as if that was already made.
People are like “Oh I have to find manufacturing, I have to do design…” and it’s like “no you don't have to do any of that”, just describe the idea, and have somebody do a quick rendering of it, and then go around to the people who you would think would want it, and say “hey, here's what I’m thinking about, here's the problem it solves”.
These are my all-time Top 4 questions for new inventors:
1. What problem are you solving?
2. Who are you solving it for?
3. What are those people doing today?
4. What is unique about what you do?
YOU MAKE IT SO SIMPLE. YOU BREAK IT DOWN REALLY WELL, SIMPLE STEPS ABCD...
YOU DID MENTION, THAT'S KIND OF WHAT YOU DO CURRENTLY... YOU MENTOR, YOU COACH UP AND COMING INVENTORS...
I do consulting for startups and mid-stage companies who are trying to come up with new ideas... So I help them through this process of coming up with new ideas and validate those ideas… These big companies do the same thing, spend millions of dollars on something and they don't know if people really want it.
SO YOU GUIDE THEM ON IT, TAKE THEM THROUGH THE STEPS YOU JUST MENTIONED.
Yeah, usually it's like a 3-months engagement... We interview customers, we take these mockups, we get their feedback... It can be enterprise software, a medical device, or electronic dog feeders; it does not matter what it is, the process is the same.
ASIDE WORDLOCK, I READ THAT YOU HAVE 33 OTHER PATENTS. YOU'VE WORKED FOR SOME MAJOR COMPANIES, DELL, APPLE... YOU WERE THE BRAIN BEHIND ILIFE, IWORK, IPHOTO... SO YOU FOLLOWED THE STEPS YOU JUST SHARED IN HELPING TO INVENT THESE PRODUCTS
Yes, yes, exactly right. So, using those same steps at a large company or small company, or by yourself in a garage, you get to do things bigger and faster at scale when you have 500 people working for you in development, but it's basically the same process
SURE IS, SO WHAT DO YOU DO FOR FUN?
So, I work out of my peleton over here, I hike, I play pickle ball, I hang out with my family, all that kind of stuff
PERFECT. THANK YOU FOR MAKING TIME TO CHAT WITH US. THIS HAS BEEN GREAT. THERE’S A LOT TO LEARN FROM YOU. APPRECIATE THIS TIME.
TODD BASCHE COACHES INVENTORS, HE CAN BE REACHED AT:
As a jewelry lover, I was always frustrated by the age-old problem of my necklace clasp moving next to my pendant and taking the spotlight away from it. I was tired of constantly twisting my necklace around my neck to try and keep the clasp in the back. I didn't want to add beads, counterweights, or make homemade changes to my necklace, so I set out to come up with a new, creative solution.
I first tried modifying pendant bails, but I just couldn't find a good solution. When I shifted my focus from the bail to the chain the solution came to me almost immediately. I designed a small, barely visible finding I call "Pendant Saddle®" that holds the pendant in place on the chain. It allows you to easily slide your pendant's bail in and out of the saddle, so you can use it with different pendants.
Pendant saddle is available for purchase on Amazon:
UNSPILL-A-BOWL, WHAT SPARKED THE IDEA?
I never thought I'd be designing pet bowls for a living, but that's exactly what happened when I started feeding my pup raw food. I quickly discovered that the food would always escape out of her bowl and onto the floor, which not only meant I had to wash her bowl, but also the mat, the floor, and anywhere else the raw food got. My concern was always about bacteria and hygiene, and I just wanted to wash the
bowl, not the whole room!
So I started looking for bowls that could keep the food from falling out in the first place, but all I could find were bowls with mats. That's when I decided to see if I could design one myself. I came up with the idea of a rounded rim that would guide the food into my pup's mouth rather than letting it roll off the side and onto the floor. The rim also created a barrier to keep the food and water from splashing out.
This design led to other benefits. The rounded rim was perfect for my pup's long poodle ears, as it kept them out of the bowl and away from the food. The shape of the bowl also slowed down her eating, making it harder for her to gulp down big bites. And when we were on the go, the rounded rim kept little splashes contained in the car, making this a great travel bowl.
TELL US SOME STEPS YOU TOOK IN BRINGING THIS IDEA TO LIFE.
First, I had to validate my concept. I reached out to a friend who was at the head of a manufacturing company equipped with high-end 3D printers. Using my specs, he produced a prototype of my idea, allowing me to put it to the test with my pup. The bowl performed flawlessly, confirming the viability of my concept. With this assurance, I took the step to file a provisional patent to protect my innovation.
Concurrently, I created marketing materials and started searching for potential partners to bring the idea to the market. Upon partnering with Advance Pet Product, I moved forward with the utility and design patent applications to strengthen the legal protection of my idea. I worked directly with the factory owner to oversee the manufacturing of a production-ready stainless steel pet bowl. The bowl's complex curved design presented challenges, but after multiple iterations he achieved the perfect form.
We introduced the product at the 2020 Global Pet Expo. The response was outstanding. Further enhancements followed, including an upgrade to 304 series (18/8) human-grade stainless steel, a shift towards single-sheet production to eliminate seams that could harbor food or debris, and the
introduction of an elevated double diner version.
My largest investment was in my patents. The design patent was issued in two years and my utility patent was issued in 3.5 years. My second largest investment was in the sharing of start-up costs with my partner.
WHAT WERE SOME CHALLENGES BRINGING THIS IDEA TO REALITY?
The biggest challenge was the introduction of Unspill-a-Bowl® at Global Pet Expo two weeks before the US locked down for Covid in March 2020 followed by lock downs across the world. Once the lockdowns started to ease, we encountered substantial setbacks in production and shipping times. Additionally, we were impacted by the unprecedented increase in costs of stainless steel and shipping.
WHO IS UNSPILL-A-BOWL MADE FOR?
Pet owners who want to keep their homes clean and orderly without the hassle of cleaning up after their pet after each meal. With Unspill-a-Bowl®, food stays in the bowl allowing you to simply wash the bowl itself.
The Unspill-bowl’s® design helps keep long ears clean and dry during meals, making it particularly appealing to owners of breeds like Cocker Spaniels, Basset Hounds, and others.
Health-conscious pet parents will love the stainless steel construction of the Unspill-a-Bowl® which ensures easy cleaning and prevents the accumulation of food debris or bacteria.
Those who frequently travel with their pets will find the spill-resistant Unspill-a-Bowl® especially useful, ensuring mess-free traveling.
Design-Conscious Consumers will like the sleek, transitional design of the Unspill-a-Bowl®, along with the choice of materials, that blend seamlessly with home decor.
The Unspill-a-Bowl® could be a popular choice for gift-givers who want to provide both a functional and thoughtful present to their friends or family members with pets.
WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE TO AN UPCOMING INVENTOR WHO WANTS TO FOLLOW IN YOUR FOOTSTEPS?
When embarking on your journey as an inventor, anticipate encountering individuals who might not grasp your vision, fail to perceive its potential, or doubt its feasibility. If you’ve done your research, you’re passionate about your idea, and everything in you tells you it’s doable, don’t give up. Take things a day at a time, listen to feedback and incorporate what makes sense, get involved with an inventors’
group for support, work hard and stay focused. Persistence is key in this business.
WHAT INSPIRED THE IDEA?
I had recently moved in with a friend and for dinner that night, he roasted a pork loin in the oven using a baking pan and a silicone baking mat. I had not seen or used a silicone baking mat before, but he explained that they’re used to prevent food from sticking to the pan and to help cook food more quickly and evenly. When I went to do the dishes, I removed the silicone mat from the baking sheet only to find that the liquids from the meat had seeped beyond the mat and baked onto the baking sheet! I placed the silicone mat into the dishwasher and then spent 10 minutes scrubbing the baking sheet. I thought, “The purpose of this mat is completely defeated if you use it with foods that seep liquids. Why am I still scrubbing this bakeware if the mat is meant to prevent foods from sticking?" After dinner, I sat down to search online for a silicone mat that was leakproof but I couldn’t find one.
WHAT WERE THE STEPS YOU TOOK TO BRING THIS IDEA TO REALITY?
After I had the idea for the baking mat, I committed to spending 1 hour every weekday to invent. I did thorough research of all the baking mats in the market and searched through patents, created strong marketing materials including a one-page sell sheet, and filed a provisional patent application. I went to Bed Bath and Beyond and purchased a few of the baking mats. As people walked by, I asked “If there was a version here that also featured a rim around the edges and was leakproof, would you buy it?” I got good feedback from everyone I spoke to. I bought a special glue from Lowes that bonds plastics, I placed the mat inside the baking sheet, measured out the edges, and made a cut into each corner. I folded up the corners and glued them, and I had a proof of concept! Following that, I made a video showing how the flat mats let food seep beyond the mat and the mess it leaves on bakeware. I then showed how my mat solves the problem. I spent a month reaching out to companies and was offered a licensing contract. Within a few months of working consistently, I was able to sign my licensing deal! From there, I worked with the licensee to develop the bbq version of the leakproof mat.
WHAT WERE THE CHALLENGES YOU ENCOUNTERED?
When I was creating the prototype, a few of the glues I tried to use did not work to bond the corners, so I had to purchase a variety in order to make the corners stick together. I also had to make a few trips to Bed Bath & Beyond to buy multiple silicone mats, as my initial cuts did not have the correct measurements to fit into baking sheets. After three trips and a few errors, I was able to build a look-alike prototype!
WHO IS THE TARGET MARKET FOR THIS PRODUCT?
Anyone who cooks using an oven or a grill can be considered part of the target market! These products are also a great fit for environmentally conscious consumers. The leakproof baking mat replaces single-use foil, wax paper, and non-stick sprays which minimizes waste. The leakproof grill mat also replaces the need for foil when using the grill!
WHAT MARKET IS THIS PRODUCT CURRENTLY AVAILABLE?
These products are currently available through most major retailers including Walmart, Target, Amazon, and more! You can view both products here:
WHAT ADVICE DO YOU HAVE FOR UPCOMING INVENTORS?
Keep seeking the right information, find a like-minded community, surround yourself with positive people who believe in you, and take action. The world needs to see your art! Ask what if and let your imagination go where it may. And know that failing isn’t avoidable, it’s absolutely necessary.
WHEN YOU ARE NOT WORKING, WHAT DO YOU DO FOR FUN?
When I’m not working I enjoy running, craft beer, playing cello, going to the beach, arts and crafts, and spending time with family and friends.
WHAT INSPIRED THE IDEA?
I have always loved the weighted feel of a rocks glass with ice, but I never liked the way ice moved around and or melted too quickly diluting the drink. While I like all the large cube products out there that stayed frozen longer, they float and rest on your nose most of the time when drinking. My thought was to have a ice cube that would stick into the glass and then almost simultaneously I thought of the perfect triangle design to create a perfect visual design as well as keeping the ice away from your face. It was just a very simple and beautiful design that came together quickly. And the name Whiskey Wedge came almost immediately to mind and brought the entire design together.
WHAT WERE THE STEPS YOU TOOK IN BRINGING THIS IDEA TO REALITY?
My background is in architectural design, so I was able to design and model out the idea relatively quickly. I built some prototypes and created a design pitch deck to fully communicate the design. The team at Corkcicle immediately loved the idea and we worked together on the patents and bringing the final R&D into production.
WHAT WERE THE CHALLENGES YOU ENCOUNTERED?
Getting the design for exactly the handhold to full the mold out took the most time to figure out, but the rest of the project was fairly easy to finalize.
WHO IS THE TARGET MARKET FOR THIS PRODUCT?
Really anyone who enjoys cocktails. It’s often purchased as a gift for someone else because of the unique and fun character of the product.
WHAT MARKET IS THIS PRODUCT CURRENTLY AVAILABLE?
It is sold in many housewares and wine/spirit stores as well as many online retailers.
WHAT ADVICE DO YOU HAVE FOR UPCOMING INVENTORS?
Be flexible in changing your ideas. You may be locked into a one and only solution, but brands and buyers may have valuable feedback for improving the design.
WHEN YOU'RE NOT WORKING, WHAT DO YOU DO FOR FUN?
I love the outdoors, riding my motocross bike and traveling.
Ever been in the shower and had to sort through a clutter of body wash, shower gels, bath salts, shampoo? Doesn’t stuff falling everywhere hamper a blissful bathing experience?
Hanging Shower Caddy, a mesh design that attaches to your shower rod and not only holds your shower conveniences but keeps your shower curtain from blowing in, is just what you need.
Meet Dana Lynn Knowles, the inventor. Dana has gone through a fascinating journey... Over the years, Dana has put forth effort in various inventive ideas, and has endured the highs and lows that come with “Yes’s”, and “No’s” … With unwavering determination, she forged ahead, and here we are 2019, Dana landed a licensing deal from Grand Fusion Housewares currently sold on Amazon.
Dana Knowles talks more about her journey in this radio interview: